Robert Baker, alias codemonkey, just showed up !
#1
Hey there !

In the rollcage steam group we have been lucky enough to contact Robert Baker, the Psygnosis responsible for porting the code from PS1 to PC !

And he is more than motivated to enhance the game ! He has already started actually.

You should take a look at this thread : http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rollcag...ussions/2/

And here, he's just asking for everyone to give opinions about what should be changed : http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rollcag...465828428/
___________________________________________________________________________________
Rollcage steam group to plan multiplayer games, check it out -> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rollcage
Reply
#2
Nice!

Some quick questions: Is he working on the P3 version? Does his version fix the slow-motion? How about the missing model triangles on high detailed cars? And z testing not working?
Try systemd. They said.
It'll be just as reliable as init. They said.
It'll be completely bug-free. They said.
Our monolithic windows-approach is far superior to the Unix-approach. They said.
Okay, so the codebase has grown gigantic and no one but our paid group of full-time developers who created it can maintain it and fix bugs... but it'll be fine. They said.
Okay, we'll shove it down your throat whether you like it or not. They said.

I guess it's finally time to look into GuixSD and/or devuan.

Code:
systemd-journald(195): Received SIGTERM.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-udevd.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-udevd.service entered failed state.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-journald.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-journald.service entered failed state.
Reply
#3
(2014-08-02, 04:08 PM)Slinger Wrote: Nice!

Some quick questions: Is he working on the P3 version? Does his version fix the slow-motion? How about the missing model triangles on high detailed cars? And z testing not working?

He's using the P3 version (he actually fixed the wheel hubs in the P3 mode, which were using wrong textures). His version is using a new frame-timing code and not -once- have I had a frame drop. 30fps all the way, and it looks beautiful.

He's trying to fix the z-buffer problems. They're caused by running at high resolutions but for me, so far I've been playing on 1080p with no problems. He also fixed controller input so I can use my 360 pad! (guess what I've been doing today...)

He's taking on other ideas, such as giving us the option to change/add new textures and sounds. He's looking into things that from a coding point he can do, such as more cars per race, even balancing the cars a little (it's been suggested that Yuri be nerfed in some way).

He's also confirmed he will look into changing Stage II's handling to match Rollcage's. Big Grin
96.5%
MORE
WUB WUB.
[Image: 54f5c31d9f2ce.gif]
Reply
#4
To answer all of my earlier questions: P3 version, fixed slow-downs, models still broken and z testing not working.

However running in wine fixes the z buffer and broken models. And it's now running at a stable speed (no slow downs for me either). It also allows running in a window (through wine virtual desktop), but since it doesn't allow change of resolution any more, one have to configure it before hand. Guess I'll be going back to wine again (not the first time it fixes horrible bugs making old games unplayable on windows). Nice!

Also some thoughts: Since he's releasing the game+assets (clear copyright violation), I'm pretty sure the reason he's not releasing the source is personal. In fact, since he seems to still use the code (or was it just his own network code?), I'm pretty sure it's just to prevent others from creating "competing products"... or he's afraid some other code will find out he's using his code without attribution. Tongue

edit: also, the installer doesn't work in wine, but the game doesn't need registry set up, so just copy the "Rollcage" directory over to wine and it'll run.

I wonder if he got some info on the 3D and track models...
Try systemd. They said.
It'll be just as reliable as init. They said.
It'll be completely bug-free. They said.
Our monolithic windows-approach is far superior to the Unix-approach. They said.
Okay, so the codebase has grown gigantic and no one but our paid group of full-time developers who created it can maintain it and fix bugs... but it'll be fine. They said.
Okay, we'll shove it down your throat whether you like it or not. They said.

I guess it's finally time to look into GuixSD and/or devuan.

Code:
systemd-journald(195): Received SIGTERM.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-udevd.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-udevd.service entered failed state.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-journald.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-journald.service entered failed state.
Reply
#5
Models and depth rendering works fine for me. I was playing at 1080p last night and there were no graphical glitches whatsoever.

He said he'd let me look at the physics code though. He knows that he doesn't want to violate copyrights, but from his knowledge since Rollcage is abandonware (yep) then so long as nobody uses the modifications for commercial gain then everybody's fine, and he knows that I can't do anything with the physics code, and you don't need to do anything with the physics code because you already have a physics engine Tongue.

I'll respect if he decides I can't have it though.
96.5%
MORE
WUB WUB.
[Image: 54f5c31d9f2ce.gif]
Reply
#6
Hey, maybe he knows who made the music for the pc version? I always wanted to know who made the outro, but I guess it was an in-house creation? Could someone ask him? Or about the 3D and track formats? *cough*iamalazybastard*cough* (or rather: going away, don't have time to ask now/wont remember it later)

Also just a heads up here (fyi): Abandonware is not a legal status. Period. Both rollcage games are copyrighted and redistributing them (even partially) is illegal. It doesn't matter if it's commercial or not, sony can jail you if they want (but they are more likely to notice if someone makes money from it).

Distributing the code (in complete/incomplete form) is most likely much more legal than the actual game, as the original developers might still hold the copyright on that one (it depends on their contract, some companies demands all source copyright to be transferred to the company). But you are completely correct in that we don't need the original code. Personally I'm just interested in the original code for modding! But I guess that wont happen any time soon. Undecided

Having the car physics code could give some inspiration, and combined with the original values for the drivers/cars could make it possible to exactly replicate engine powers and similar. But don't expect it to magically solve the car handling. But I'd also like to have a look at it, of course. Smile
Try systemd. They said.
It'll be just as reliable as init. They said.
It'll be completely bug-free. They said.
Our monolithic windows-approach is far superior to the Unix-approach. They said.
Okay, so the codebase has grown gigantic and no one but our paid group of full-time developers who created it can maintain it and fix bugs... but it'll be fine. They said.
Okay, we'll shove it down your throat whether you like it or not. They said.

I guess it's finally time to look into GuixSD and/or devuan.

Code:
systemd-journald(195): Received SIGTERM.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-udevd.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-udevd.service entered failed state.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-journald.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-journald.service entered failed state.
Reply
#7
I'll try and remember to ask him whilst he's not busy fixing things.

For the record he's been working on the z-buffering issue. Apparently he's fixed it in 1.1.3.

He's also considering implementing a colour-picking tool so we can use custom car colours online (we can't have custom liveries because of the way the game organises textures together, but he said a hue-shifter tool is possible).

Network play doesn't want to work, though. I hope he can start working on that because I want to be able to play online, but I can't play without analog. I tried. It was impossible.
96.5%
MORE
WUB WUB.
[Image: 54f5c31d9f2ce.gif]
Reply
#8
(2014-08-04, 11:53 AM)Slinger Wrote: Also just a heads up here (fyi): Abandonware is not a legal status. Period. Both rollcage games are copyrighted and redistributing them (even partially) is illegal. It doesn't matter if it's commercial or not, sony can jail you if they want (but they are more likely to notice if someone makes money from it).

Well, even though it's not a legal status, there is abandonia who provides free distribution of Rollcage, and it's not as if it was an unknown website Tongue

There must be a little something for abandonwares, isn't it ?

Anyway, he's still making new versions again and again, and if you've got a question to ask him, well feel free to do so, he's very nice and answers to pretty much everything. I think I've learnt more about Rollcage in one week than in all my life ! (the legend of Psygnosis Tongue)
___________________________________________________________________________________
Rollcage steam group to plan multiplayer games, check it out -> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rollcage
Reply
#9
Yuri got nerfed. Happy days!

I still think he needs nerfing a bit more, but he's getting there.


By the way, Rob is including the Rollcage IMG/IDX with his Redux installer so ... copyright shmopyshright. xD
96.5%
MORE
WUB WUB.
[Image: 54f5c31d9f2ce.gif]
Reply
#10
I hope you understand that I'm not talking about the copyright issues because I feel they are a good thing. I despise it, but I want everyone to be aware of them.

I like to think that maybe, just maybe, making more people aware of the stupidity of copyright might prevent some legal problem for someone in the future. Or something.

And again, since he's redistributing not just part of the game, but (virtually) the whole game, he is (and everyone downloading are) already violating sony's copyright, in ways far more extreme than releasing "only" the source code. On the other hand, his talk about backporting the stage2 mixer to rc1 is interesting. I assume this is the "miles sound system", which is a commercial 3rd party library. I really wonder if he got a proper license that allow him to do this, or if he ends up not only violating the copyright of sony, but also that of rad tools. Wink

Also the z-buffer issue is fixed for me. Good times! Smile

quick edit: also, the buffer issues for me was caused by regressions in the non-free amd/radeon drivers (on windows), but I'm still glad it's fixed (never thought it'd happen). Also I assume everyone knows GOG? Their business model is based on the fact that abandonware IS ILLEGAL, and they negotiate a contract with the copyright holder to provide a LEGAL distribution of abandonware.
Try systemd. They said.
It'll be just as reliable as init. They said.
It'll be completely bug-free. They said.
Our monolithic windows-approach is far superior to the Unix-approach. They said.
Okay, so the codebase has grown gigantic and no one but our paid group of full-time developers who created it can maintain it and fix bugs... but it'll be fine. They said.
Okay, we'll shove it down your throat whether you like it or not. They said.

I guess it's finally time to look into GuixSD and/or devuan.

Code:
systemd-journald(195): Received SIGTERM.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-udevd.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-udevd.service entered failed state.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-journald.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-journald.service entered failed state.
Reply
#11
Well, if we get into trouble we get into trouble, if we don't we don't.

I think everyone who has downloaded Redux probably owns the original games anyway (I own both Rollcage and Stage II lol).
96.5%
MORE
WUB WUB.
[Image: 54f5c31d9f2ce.gif]
Reply
#12
Yeah, I don't think there'll be any problem. I just wanted to point it out. Wink

Also rant about the non-release of the sources. My impression is that there's no legal obstacle to release them (or at least not as severe as releasing the actual game!). :p
Try systemd. They said.
It'll be just as reliable as init. They said.
It'll be completely bug-free. They said.
Our monolithic windows-approach is far superior to the Unix-approach. They said.
Okay, so the codebase has grown gigantic and no one but our paid group of full-time developers who created it can maintain it and fix bugs... but it'll be fine. They said.
Okay, we'll shove it down your throat whether you like it or not. They said.

I guess it's finally time to look into GuixSD and/or devuan.

Code:
systemd-journald(195): Received SIGTERM.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-udevd.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-udevd.service entered failed state.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-journald.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-journald.service entered failed state.
Reply
#13
(2014-08-16, 05:47 PM)K.Mac Wrote: Well, if we get into trouble we get into trouble, if we don't we don't.

I think everyone who has downloaded Redux probably owns the original games anyway (I own both Rollcage and Stage II lol).
That. And also, distributing the game is different than distributing the source code.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Rollcage steam group to plan multiplayer games, check it out -> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rollcage
Reply
#14
(2015-03-07, 12:48 PM)potterman28wxcv Wrote:
(2014-08-16, 05:47 PM)K.Mac Wrote: Well, if we get into trouble we get into trouble, if we don't we don't.

I think everyone who has downloaded Redux probably owns the original games anyway (I own both Rollcage and Stage II lol).
That. And also, distributing the game is different than distributing the source code.
Of course, distributing the source code could be more likely to be hazardous. After thinking about it, bony might sue him on grounds of something like espionage for doing it.

But that doesn't absolutely mean distributing compiled versions is any less of an offence. Remember that Rob doesn't have the copyright to this, not even his own code. I'm saying this because there's a clear "© psygnosis" statement, meaning those involved must (most likely) have signed some contract signing over their copyright to psygnosis. Which is now owned by sony. So even if he just release his own (network) code, or even compiled version of it, he'd still be violating their copyright.

In fact, (tired, don't remember, don't bother look it up), didn't he mention using the rollcage engine for some lego game? If so, it was either involving psygnosis, or he must have some experience with the licensing of it. Or... did he just "reuse" the code since there was no chance of anyone discovering?

(IANAL)
Try systemd. They said.
It'll be just as reliable as init. They said.
It'll be completely bug-free. They said.
Our monolithic windows-approach is far superior to the Unix-approach. They said.
Okay, so the codebase has grown gigantic and no one but our paid group of full-time developers who created it can maintain it and fix bugs... but it'll be fine. They said.
Okay, we'll shove it down your throat whether you like it or not. They said.

I guess it's finally time to look into GuixSD and/or devuan.

Code:
systemd-journald(195): Received SIGTERM.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-udevd.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-udevd.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-udevd.service entered failed state.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service has no holdoff time, scheduling restart.
systemd[1]: systemd-journald.service failed to schedule restart job: final.target is queued, ignoring restart request for unit systemd-journald.service
systemd[1]: Unit systemd-journald.service entered failed state.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)